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We talked about installing plugins in WP and moving the blog to our own server. Since we may want to do more that blogging, for example: Multilingual Posts, Projects, Some metrics and Analytics, (Nikolay was taking about Trust Metric), Event organizing, Advertising, Fund raising, add more… I wonder what software is best suited to handle all ?
A friend of mine – Bertrand, showed me a nice collaborative whiteboard/canvas software in flash.
Collaborative mind-map for google-wave, anyone ?
While on the subject here are some other interesting flash-based apps & libs:
Collaborative mind-map for google-wave – definitely yes, thumbs up! I’m really intrigued by the possibility to develop wave widgets/robots in general. However, I’m total newbie on that subject. Or I should better say – I’m a pre-newbie. 
What I can say for sure is this is one of those applications google wave is created for.
It’s very exiting that you’re interested in collaborative visualization and and modeling, Diagrams can go long way… Here is a process that my friend Ian showed me a while ago. Professionally I’ve been using Graphviz for a while now to visualize models, conceptual graphs, RDF sub-graphs etc. Here is a google wave that i used to transfer a brain-map from my IPhone. All, feel free to link your visual thoughts to mine !
Did you invite Bertrand to that blog?
Yes, I’ve invited Bertrand a while ago… One more reason for us to get our act together and get a plugin to contribute translations…I’ll put a poll together about different Blog/CMS systems we can use.
Yea guys, i put my first article today ;o)
Sorry for being so long, but i had a child 1 month ago so.
A little question about the idiagram.com schema. I love that kind of diagram!
Do you think that there is a way of making a usable schema for politic purpose?
Because, when i check the tv news since few month, it looks that human being are definitively not able to succeed by itself. It’s Rome again now. I know that it’s look like very stupid question but what if we could let a AI take decisions independently of human decision? Not by thinking deeply but just by taking the smartest decision for the community and not for 1 or 2 guys.
Politic, Economie, Law are getting more and more complex and no-one is coming to understand what going on anymore. Maybe use an AI model to regulate or control some crucial point could be really nice for humanity! Our fucking history prove us so many times that we just can’t manage each other alone.
Hey Bertrand, congratulations for the baby!
About the politics, I think you’re right – any sort of sophisticated enough A.I. system will do better than they do – most of them are just idiots in the uniform of the public office.
This world will definitely change, but it will take time, and based on our history it may take a while, could be another 2000 years. That’s more like a fraction of a second in the scale of the entire human history (if anyone can tell how what’s the length of the human history) but this is our time and may we should use A.I. to replace those not-that-smart decision makers.
Let’s make an experiment:
Choose a AI/Expert system and feed it with enough information so it could make some sort of decision. Regularly choose important problems that occur in our society, those that and international and will be judged and made decision about by all (or most) governments. See what decision our system will make and later compare it with theirs.
It may prove that the A.I. is better, equal or worse that them, on all cases it will be interesting, and a lot of fun of course.
PS: I thought that this forum here is more for creating things, not a chatter, so here it is – a challenge.
We could also take the problem from the other side and ask an AI to rewrite our law and politic system !
Few month ago, i was in court and i was chatting with my lawyer about laws system (waiting our turn). He explained me that law is just another economy. As i already explain in another post about software, economy has a great problem, it made people made stupid and crazy stuff for made more money rather than take care of people’s needs. So, even if someone tomorrow find a couple a fundamental awesome laws that could handle any problems, no-one will listen to him because it will kill this economy. So the only point of making laws more and more complex is for increase this economy. And the point of letting lawyers write laws is to let this system get more profitable.
Also, the actual political and law system is from century and is based on very old world behaviors. Maybe the idea to find a global system from actual knowledge and composed with simple rules may be very interesting to help people choose good direction.
I agree. Trying to make this economy model work might not be enough and the best thing for humanity… Talking about economy models it would be great if we collaboratively build one that would allow us to allocate funds (if we manage to get any) per project and contribution without the subjectivity of a particular person. Initially this can be all virtual… like a game.
Economical game 
)This remind me something.
I think we should avoid to consider the economy part of the structure. Only people’s side should be think. Redo a political model, this is the point. Maybe we could find something without laws and economy! Or something new.
For the fund part, we could try to sell an economic prediction algorithm like the one for the weather. Setup huge supercomputer to try to predict few bullshit and then work on something greater in parallel!
Hi guys,
The idea of AI making decisions instead of us (mankind) terrifies me. Yes, most politics are idiots and yes, people tend to make wrong choices (depending on ones point of view).
However mankind history shows unambiguously that mankind moves ahead and learns from it’s mistakes (unfortunately sometimes through tragedies).
Furthermore how the “right” decision is defined – the one that benefits majority or the one that benefits minority?
The idea of economy model that allows allocating funds is something very interesting and worth discussing…
Also let’s decide what we can discuss here and is it better to discuss things somewhere else, google wave for example.
Agree for Waves. Blog is very good begining for turning around ideas but google tools could be really better for organize the work around ideas !
So from where to begin? Any ideas?
Well, if anyone of you guys don’t have Wave account I have a lot of invitations to give away.
We can create private Waves on specific topics and invite people there (also it’s probably worth it to research how we can embed a wave on this site)…
beber.lempereur at gmail dot com
What’s yours?
There are many tools for collaboration, thats why I’ve posted the CMS/Blog poll. It’s important before we decide to use one or another to think about what are we trying to do, what we have achieved so far and whats missing. There are many ways that google wave (as is now) is inferior to other tools… The whole google tool set is another matter. I think that it might be useful for us to have ability to create content like projects pages, organize content and navigation, use current assets for fund raising even trough adds and much more… I think that the tool of preference will be determined by the people willing to contribute within our community. By contribution i don’t mean only ideas but also by developing and improving these tools. I’ll continue this discussion in the CMS/Blog poll thread…
For a while now I’ve been thinking about using knowledge representation – Ontologies as a base for creating a modular Natural Language Processing system focused on extracting structured data from unstructured. For example we can create/use Ontologies (models) that describe “simple” concepts like: Address, Time, Task, Expense, Transaction etc… and use them to “match” information from a text stream. The reason i’m writing this is because i think that there is a common ground for collaboration… I know Stefan is interested in RDF/OWL, the company that Neven is involved is in a very near domain and finally i was playing with Google Wave which i think is a good platform for creating intelligent bots that will be very easy to distribute if they turn out to be useful :)
Here are some references:
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/
http://protege.stanford.edu/
http://jena.sourceforge.net/
http://www.openrdf.org/
http://code.google.com/apis/wave/guide.html
Although I’m currently not even in near domain (kernel level C driver development is not even close by any means) it is very interesting to me and would gladly participate…
Awesome, I’ll try to start with some examples “soon”
I want to add a few NLP projects that I personally find interesting: openNLP, which is in Java, and NLTK, which is in Python.
Thanks Nikolay, I browsed around the links you provided and stumbled on Apache UIMA, a graduated IBM Research project which has recently been approved as an OASIS Standard. I think that it could be used as a framework in which we can plug our NLP modules when they mature.
It seems pretty good, but why it’s still in the incubator… since 2006?
Here’s one project that uses Apache UIMA – SEASR. It has interesting stuff such as sentiment analysis.
This is very interesting topic indeed.
Knowledge representation is just one part of the process. It is relatively simple task to represent knowledge in a digital form no mater how complex structures or algorithms you should use or how much processor power and memory you will need. But the task does not end with the representation of this knowledge, you need to do something with it.
One of the obstacles that existed before was the enormous quantities of information that need to gathered first and then process them, but now with Google and all other web-spiders and similar, collecting the information is feasible.
By the way, Google machine translation is mostly based on what they find on the web and they think one is translation of the other. It’s a version of the statistical machine translation. Others use other sources for parallel corpora such as books, legal documents, etc.
I will do a parallel here, like the hypothetical best compression algorithm is very similar to a random generator – in its behavior and the result that it produces, in a similar way the perfect machine translation engine is very similar to the best knowledge representation and processing system. It should be in fact a representation of the entire human knowledge with the ability to derive new representations of it in form of one human language or another.
I like the idea of presenting a program by what it does. The computer language and the computer behavior pair are not very different from humans’ language and respectively their behavior. One day we will be creating programs just by example given to the some kind of knowledge processor that will convert it to a machine code based on what we expect that program to do, just by giving verbal examples.
I forgot to mention that there was a worldwide recognized NLP conference in Bulgaria, in September, that I was invited to attend but couldn’t for reasons beyond my control, organized by the Bulgarian Academy of Science. The lecturers were mostly from EU and few from US.
Also, don’t take seriously what I’m saying here about NLP, I’m not proficient enough in that area. 
Hello ! I’m not sure what an ontology is.I’m not a Linguist. Let’s say “ontology” is the grammar way of building a sentence(in English). As I have a simple Language processor( Phrase generator ) , we are able to connect a pattern /logical or even derived relational database with different “ontologies”/patterns to Phrase generator. And we are not talking about Natural language processing, and for Virtual Natural Language Processor
“ontology” may become every grammatic rule.
As you can connect one Application to different databases, you are able to create a pure Logical database based on Artifficial Intelligence with predicats connected to the Application with recurent conections(not database) based on Neural networks Theory. And so, this Application becomes a BOT to communicate with
the beginning( reference ) :
http://www.languagetool.org/ ( be a patient and smart )
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/2297
The Mandatory Google Wave thread, so we all enjoy the real-time Web innovation. If anyone gets an invite or has invites to spare, please share in this thread. My email is…
…and I still haven’t got one.
I would enjoy an invitation as well
First Web 2.0 service to announce Google Wave extension functionality is Ribbit.
http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/09/29/ribbit-injects-voice-into-google-wave-release/
Still no invite in my Gmail either. I read they are going out later today though.
Extensive review of Google Wave on Gizmodo, just in case you like staring at Wave screenshots.
According to Mashable, we’re mere hours away from Waving goodbye to static Web
I have invited you guys but it seems it takes forever to get 2nd level invites from Google.
No problem, we can wait… don’t we all? *continues chewing his nails, tasting blood*
It seems a lot of people are currently waiting, so we will wait as well. !0x for the invitations…
I’m waiting for you to get your accounts as there isn’t much I can do with Scoble, Yakuel, Trapani, Stay, and the other VIPs I have there as my contacts.
Scoble is the last person I’d want to Wave with. He’s proven himself on FriendFeed as a crybaby with a cunning sense of blogosphere drama, and a hype psychologist for stressed out CEOs that crave attention.
I know and that’s why I’m waiting for all of you to get your invites. I’m gonna ping some googlers as they’re truly deceiving us with those 2nd level invites! How can you test a service with nobody to try it with! That’s ridiculous! It’s not like Gmail where you can send and receive email with the World; to test Wave, you need friends with access to Wave.
ihayes2000
Jean
jyonkov, 
Apostol Apostolov, and 
jyonkov 12:23 pm on December 19, 2009 Permalink |
It seems that we can’t see what the other options are… so it would be nice if we add them as a comments. I was not expecting to see a lot of votes for google, but with google apps and JEE engine it seems that it has a lot of potential.
Bertrand 4:47 pm on December 20, 2009 Permalink |
Drupal and ModX are really simple and clear, Joomla is heavy to setup and manipulate but there is much more fonctionality.
About Google tools, i turn a bit around Google Site and it’s look ugly and very limitated by default.
Joomla, Drupal, your call ;o)
jyonkov 2:11 am on December 23, 2009 Permalink |
As you may have already realized, it’s not really “anyone’s call” what we are going to use, but to me its more about what we need and who is willing to contribute and what platform one has experience with… Please forgive me for the following brain dump but from what i know: Nikolay has experience with WP and he has acquired gambari.org for us, Naven has extensive experience in organizing communities, Stefan has extensive experience with PHP, Bertrand is extremely good with graphics, etc … and we are all pretty good at programming and software architecture. Please add anything you’d like to share… For example I’m more comfortable with Java and Google Engine than PHP. I’m also really exited about getting together and doing a development camp, perhaps sometime next year. Candidate projects pages and projects dashboard would be useful (we can add pages under Projects page), raising funds would help (start with google adsense?). About our community portal i’m sure you’re aware that you can export WP and experiment yourself. I personally think that instead of dividing out community it would be better to experiment bridging WP. For example we can setup our WP server at http://wp.gambari.org or/and JOOMLA at http://joomla.gambari.org , as for the current http://gambari.wordpress.com we are very limited as Nikolay mentioned earlier.
Daniel Radev 3:32 am on December 23, 2009 Permalink |
It’s not about dividing community, I think we need a place where we can share some more information without it being visible to spam bots for example (Bertrand please remove your email from bellow
).
Nikolay 10:20 pm on January 1, 2010 Permalink |
From SEO point of view, it’s not good to have multiple subdomains. Whatever we pick, it’s better to reside on the same domain under different paths, i.e. gambari.org as the main and gambari.org/blog as the blog, etc. Regarding the CMS… I think for blogging, WordPress is the best. There are many additional things you can do on top of WordPress MU such as BuddyPress (SocNet), bbPress (forum), etc. Drupal is cool, but even the upcoming Drupal 7 is nowhere close to WordPress for blogging. Probably Drupal 8 will change the status quo, but for now I think WordPress MU + BuddyPress is the best choice for us.
jyonkov 2:10 am on January 2, 2010 Permalink |
Agree about the SEO point of view. About CMS I’m all for what people have experience with. The top things TODO in my opinion are to create our own WPMU, add advertisement and a way for all of us to see how much funds we have accumulated, add infrastructure for translating content. Nik, if you have time can you setup WPMU at http://gambari.org and suggest a way to add Ads. Additional user accounts might be useful (people may like to help…). Lets keep both WPMU’s active for awhile.